Here is an exposition and analysis of some of this week’s national security-related threads authored by Just Security Editorial Board member and former federal prosecutor Renato Mariotti.
Trump Urged Congress to End Obstruction Investigations
Mariotti analyzes the question of whether the news that Trump urged Senate Republicans this summer to end the Senate Russia investigation constitutes obstruction of justice. Under 18 U.S.C. §1505, the crime of interfering with a Congressional investigation requires two things: first, a “corrupt” mental intent, and second, an act of “influenc[ing], obstruct[ing], or imped[ing],” or attempting to do one of those things, with respect to “the power of inquiry under which any inquiry or investigation is being had by either House, or any committee of either House or any joint committee of the Congress.”
Here, as Renato notes, a compelling argument can be made that Trump satisfies the act requirement because he appears to be using his influence as President to end an investigation. However, the “corrupt” mental state requirement, in other words that Trump knew he was ending an investigation unlawfully, is more difficult to establish. Mariotti notes that Trump’s team would argue that Trump was asking them to end the investigations because he believed they were merit less and a waste of time, rather than because he wanted to prevent them from finding incriminating evidence against him. Likewise, the NYT story notes that GOP Congressional representatives argue that he is naive and does not realize he is doing anything improper. It would be harder to show Trump had an unlawful mental state with respect to the Congressional investigations, and thus difficult to establish beyond a reasonable doubt that he obstructed justice.
However, as Mariotti notes, this information could serve as evidence of Trump’s mental state, coupled with other evidence, with respect to the Comey firing — showing that he believed he was doing something unlawful by removing Comey. At the least, it suggests the importance of the Russia investigations for Trump, another aspect that could factor into establishing Trump’s mental state with respect to the FBI’s investigations into his administration.
THREAD: Does today’s news that Trump pushed Congress to prematurely end its Russia investigations mean he obstructed justice?
— Renato Mariotti (@renato_mariotti) December 1, 2017
1/ Today @nytimes reported that Trump repeatedly urged Congress to end the Russia investigations. https://t.co/CgxX9dJN4h
— Renato Mariotti (@renato_mariotti) December 1, 2017
2/ It is a crime for anyone to try to interfere with a Congressional investigation if they’re acting with “corrupt” intent. In other words, with the intent to interfere with the investigation unlawfully.
— Renato Mariotti (@renato_mariotti) December 1, 2017
3/ You can make a compelling argument that Trump is trying to use his considerable influence as President to prematurely end an investigation into his family.
— Renato Mariotti (@renato_mariotti) December 1, 2017
4/ Trump’s team will argue that he believes the investigations have no merit and he is just asking Congress to bring meritless investigations to a swift end. As the story notes, GOP Congressmen argue that he is naive and doesn’t understand that he is doing anything improper.
— Renato Mariotti (@renato_mariotti) December 1, 2017
5/ On its own, this action by Trump is not sufficient to prove obstruction beyond a reasonable doubt. But Mueller could use it as evidence of Trump’s intent along with a lot of other evidence to show that Trump had “corrupt” intent when he fired Comey.
— Renato Mariotti (@renato_mariotti) December 1, 2017
6/ At the very least, it shows that Trump is extremely interested in the Russia investigations and is highly motivated to end them prematurely. /end
— Renato Mariotti (@renato_mariotti) December 1, 2017
Mueller Team Interviews Jared Kushner
In this thread, Mariotti discusses the potential significance of Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s team’s reportedly interviewing Jared Kushner about a meeting between Kushner, Michael Flynn, and Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak, in which the investigators purportedly focused on Flynn’s role. Mariotti notes that Kushner’s interview does not necessarily carry legal significance as to Kushner himself — his lawyer allowed him to be interviewed, which he would not do if he believed Kushner did anything illegal with respect to his activities with Flynn. Note Mariotti’s claim is narrower than the proposition put forward by the New York Times in its reporting. The Times wrote, “Defense lawyers typically do not allow such interviews if they believe that their clients are the target of an investigation.”
Because Flynn is now likely either cooperating with or negotiating about the terms of cooperation with Mueller, this particular aspect of the investigation is presumably wrapping up, so it is unlikely Kushner will be interviewed about it again. However, Kushner may still be interviewed in the future about other aspects of the Russia investigation or charges against other individuals, and he himself is not out of legal jeopardy.
THREAD: What does Mueller’s interview of Jared Kushner tell us?
— Renato Mariotti (@renato_mariotti) November 30, 2017
1/ Since a number of you asked, let’s talk about what conclusions we can draw from Mueller’s interview of Jared Kushner earlier this month. https://t.co/o25jqLE9Wg?amp=1
— Renato Mariotti (@renato_mariotti) November 30, 2017
2/ The interview focused on Flynn, which isn’t surprising because Mueller was preparing to charge Flynn before he agreed to cooperate. Prosecutors have to gather evidence and run down loose ends before bringing charges.
— Renato Mariotti (@renato_mariotti) November 30, 2017
3/ Federal prosecutors routinely interview anyone who witnessed conversations that could be relevant to an investigation or who could have observed illegal activity by someone they intend to charge.
— Renato Mariotti (@renato_mariotti) November 30, 2017
4/ That doesn’t mean that Mueller won’t interview Kushner about other subjects. I’d be surprised if Kushner isn’t interviewed again. He was involved, for example, in the firing of @Comey.
— Renato Mariotti (@renato_mariotti) November 30, 2017
5/ One thing to keep in mind is that Mueller’s investigation has many different aspects. He will not charge everyone in one grand conspiracy. He is investigating a bunch of different crimes that are only loosely related to each other.
— Renato Mariotti (@renato_mariotti) November 30, 2017
6/ So Manafort was charged separately from Flynn, who committed different crimes. Any charges related to obstruction will be charged separately. There may be several different indictments by the time the investigation is over.
— Renato Mariotti (@renato_mariotti) November 30, 2017
7/ The different pieces of the investigation may not all proceed at the same pace. Manafort was charged first, and now the Flynn piece is wrapping up. If Mueller wraps up obstruction next, that won’t mean he’s done.
— Renato Mariotti (@renato_mariotti) November 30, 2017
8/ So we shouldn’t take too much away from this interview. Kushner was asked about Flynn, and his attorney let Kushner be interviewed, which suggests that he didn’t believe Kushner has criminal liability as to his activities with Flynn.
— Renato Mariotti (@renato_mariotti) November 30, 2017
9/ That doesn’t mean Kushner doesn’t have liability as to other aspects of the investigation, such as omissions on disclosure forms. /end
— Renato Mariotti (@renato_mariotti) November 30, 2017
Carpenter v. U.S. Supreme Court Oral Argument and Cell Site Location Information
In this thread, Mariotti discusses the factual and legal issues at play in the Carpenter v. U.S. case. The issue is about whether law enforcement can access historical cell site location information (CSLI), which is recorded any time a phone sends or receives a call or text message to the accuracy of within a mile or so. In the case, law enforcement officers collected historical location data without a warrant to establish that a suspect was at particular locations at the time crimes were committed.
Law enforcement is able to gain access to historical location data by getting a court order that has lower standards than getting a warrant: they have to establish specific facts that show the location data would be relevant to a criminal investigation. Mariotti notes that as a federal prosecutor, he obtained more precise, forward-looking location data, which requires obtaining a warrant from a court. The legal standard for a warrant is establishing probable cause that a crime was committed.
Historical CSLI can be obtained without needing to get a warrant because of the so-called Third-Party Doctrine, which holds that if people transmit communications information to an independent entity, such as logs of phone calls to the local telephone company, they don’t have an expectation of keeping that information private. On this theory, government access to that data without a warrant does not constitute an unreasonable search under the Fourth Amendment.
Based on the Justices’ questioning at oral argument, it looks like at least five Justices are in favor of creating an exception to the Third-Party Doctrine in this situation and requiring a warrant. If that were to happen, it would have significant implications for government surveillance generally, especially in the national security realm.
THREAD: What is the cell phone tracking case considered by the Supreme Court today about? Why does it matter?
— Renato Mariotti (@renato_mariotti) November 29, 2017
1/ Today the Supreme Court heard arguments in a case called Carpenter v. United States. The issue in the case was whether the government could obtained something called “historical cell site records” without a search warrant.
— Renato Mariotti (@renato_mariotti) November 29, 2017
2/ Historical cell site records are records that are kept by the cell phone company of the cell towers that your phone communicates with when you make phone calls. So it provides limited, but useful, location information about the person using the phone.
— Renato Mariotti (@renato_mariotti) November 29, 2017
3/ I obtained historical cell site records many times as a federal prosecutor. I also obtained more precise cell phone location information by obtaining a warrant. The more precise, future-looking location information is much more useful because it can help you find a person.
— Renato Mariotti (@renato_mariotti) November 29, 2017
4/ So, for example, we used that information to find victims of kidnappings. We also used it to find bank robbers and narcotics traffickers. But the more precise and ongoing information is future-looking. What if you’re trying to find out where a phone was in the past?
— Renato Mariotti (@renato_mariotti) November 29, 2017
5/ That’s where historical cell site information comes in. If someone’s cell phone used a cell tower located near a bank that was robbed, it could be evidence in a bank robbery trial. If the phone was 50 miles away, that would help clear their name.
— Renato Mariotti (@renato_mariotti) November 29, 2017
6/ The government has been obtaining that historical information using a court order that isn’t a warrant A warrant requires proof that there’s a good reason to believe a crime was committed and the phone was used in connection with that crime.
— Renato Mariotti (@renato_mariotti) November 29, 2017
7/ The lower standard only requires proof that there are specific facts that show the records would be relevant to the investigation. That’s a lower standard, somewhere between what’s required for a subpoena and what’s required for a warrant.
— Renato Mariotti (@renato_mariotti) November 29, 2017
8/ Based on the argument today, it looks like most Supreme Court justices side with Carpenter and will require a warrant going forward. The Court’s decision has much larger consequences than just the cell phone example above.
— Renato Mariotti (@renato_mariotti) November 29, 2017
9/ That’s because we usually don’t have privacy rights in information that we release to third-parties. Typically someone like Carpenter loses his privacy right to the data that his phone sends to his cell phone provider, because he’s already disclosed it to another person.
— Renato Mariotti (@renato_mariotti) November 29, 2017
10/ Nowadays, the information that we provide to companies has expanded greatly. We provide many intimate details of our lives to companies like Google, Facebook, and AT&T.
— Renato Mariotti (@renato_mariotti) November 29, 2017
11/ If we didn’t have strong privacy rights to that information, it would make it easier for the government to keep track of all of us, which has many people worried.
— Renato Mariotti (@renato_mariotti) November 29, 2017
12/ So while the impact of this case on law enforcement is fairly limited, it could change how courts deal with privacy issues in new technologies going forward. /end
— Renato Mariotti (@renato_mariotti) November 29, 2017
Trump Believes Mueller Investigation Will Exonerate Him
Here, Mariotti discusses potential consequences of White House Special Counsel Ty Cobb’s framing of the Russia investigation to President Trump. According to the Washington Post, Cobb has painted an optimistic picture of the investigation for Trump, and has assured him that it will be over and that he will be exonerated by the end of the year (though initially he suggested to Trump that it would be over by Thanksgiving). He has told Trump that the investigation has stopped requesting new documents, which means that the investigation could be over in two weeks, and that Mueller could then write a report exonerating Trump. The Post writes, “One outside adviser to Trump warned that the president would ‘blow a gasket’ if there was no statement of exoneration by year’s end.”
Likewise, Mariotti notes that he can’t imagine Mueller ending the investigation any time soon, and that Ty Cobb might have violated his ethical duty to tell his client the truth by painting this rosy picture, which is what Trump wants to hear. Mariotti also raises concerns that Trump may launch an “all-out assault” on the FBI and the Special Counsel if Mueller continues the investigation past this year.
1/ This is a frightening story. Trump believes he’s going to be completely exonerated by Mueller within a month. What will he do when that doesn’t happen? https://t.co/Fjca6K4v9g
— Renato Mariotti (@renato_mariotti) November 29, 2017
Last week at Mar-a-Lago, Trump told friends the Mueller probe will be over by end of the year, citing assurances from his lawyers. https://t.co/BPPaWxZWdA
— Philip Rucker (@PhilipRucker) November 29, 2017
2/ I can’t imagine Mueller wrapping up his investigation that quickly. That forecast is so hard to believe that it makes me wonder if Trump lawyer Ty Cobb is deliberately telling Trump what he wants to hear even though it is unlikely to be true.
— Renato Mariotti (@renato_mariotti) November 29, 2017
3/ As a lawyer, you have a duty to tell your client the truth, even if it’s not what he or she wants to hear. In this case, Cobb may have bought Mueller a little bit of time, but that time could be running out.
— Renato Mariotti (@renato_mariotti) November 29, 2017
4/ If Mueller is still investigating next year, as almost all of us expect, will Trump mount a full-scale assault on Mueller and the FBI? I’m worried about the consequences of that strategy for our nation.
— Renato Mariotti (@renato_mariotti) November 29, 2017
5/ If Trump goes after Mueller and the FBI, every patriotic American will need to stand up and demand that our elected representatives defend and preserve the rule of law. If not, we’ll need to rise up and vote them all out. /end
— Renato Mariotti (@renato_mariotti) November 29, 2017
White House Counsel Don McGahn Expected to be Interviewed in Mueller Investigation
Here, Mariotti highlights the importance of the news that White House Counsel Don McGahn is expected to be interviewed soon in the Russia investigation. The CNN report in the thread notes that White House counsels have previously tried to invoke attorney-client privilege to protect their communications with the President from being revealed in court, but that this strategy has failed in the past with respect to President Clinton’s lawyer and the Ken Starr investigation. What’s more, the Mueller investigation has already overcome attorney-client privilege once in issuing the Manafort and Gates indictments.
McGahn is in a unique position to provide evidence to Mueller because he has been advising Trump on legal affairs throughout his campaign and presidency. He was likely to have given Trump legal advice on issues like whether firing FBI Director James Comey would be legal, or how to deal with the Trump Organization after entering office. And Mariotti notes earlier reports that McGahn edited Trump’s letter justifying the Comey firing, and ultimately rejected the draft that Trump developed. This implicates the question of whether McGahn advised Trump of the legal problems involved with firing Comey, or whether he merely edited it to ensure for political acceptability and tone.
1/ It’s unusual for a lawyer to become a witness in a criminal investigation, but under existing precedent, conversations between Trump and McGahn are NOT privileged. https://t.co/kwJ9hMXWDW
— Renato Mariotti (@renato_mariotti) November 27, 2017
2/ Earlier reports indicated that McGahn reviewed the early letter firing Comey that was prepared by Stephen Miller at Trump’s direction. Reportedly McGahn edited the letter and made comments.
— Renato Mariotti (@renato_mariotti) November 27, 2017
3/ McGahn’s edits, as well as his advice to Trump, could be the most important evidence in Mueller’s obstruction case.
— Renato Mariotti (@renato_mariotti) November 27, 2017
4/ For example, if McGahn warned Trump that firing Comey could be legally problematic, Trump’s decision to go ahead would be powerful evidence against him.
— Renato Mariotti (@renato_mariotti) November 27, 2017
5/ On the other hand, if McGahn raised other concerns only (such as the tone of the letter or political consequences), Trump could argue that he the decision past his attorney and he didn’t raise obstruction concerns. That’s called an “advice of counsel” defense.
— Renato Mariotti (@renato_mariotti) November 27, 2017
6/ Either way, McGahn’s testimony, along with his notes and edits, will be extremely important in the obstruction case. /end
— Renato Mariotti (@renato_mariotti) November 27, 2017